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Stop spreading hate for punjabis BBC. CANADA NEEDS TO RECONSIDER ITS IMMIGRATION POLICIES NOT ONLY FOR PUNJAB BUT ALSO FOR ARAB COUNTRIES THAT SENDS REFUGEES IN 1000s. Students do work but refugees don’t. They claim disability benefits and live for free without paying taxes.

I moved to the US from Canada. No country is perfect but I prefer the US, much better if you are younger with a good degree /skills.\n\nMuch better job market and career growth opportunities, better weather, more variety, lower taxes and higher pay, much better to be paid in USD, so much more to see/do, way better flight options, most things from eggs to cars to houses cost less...just much more.\n\nOnly thing is getting permanent residency in the US is much more difficult than Canada, but US is where the growth and opportunities are.

Sadly, Canada is not longer the country it used to be! \nAffordability is a huge factor, plus the difficulty to enter the job force or find a good job (not only in academia in every field) which so necessary to pay for housing, food etc\nBut also the social and cultural changes has been huge in the past decade. \nAs we see the decline in USA, we can see Canada is following closely and in some areas, we are doing worse.\n20+ years ago Canada have quality of life, that has dropped drastically in every area health services, schools, security, transportation, housing, infrastructure etc. although we pay higher taxes than other countries we do not have the same services.\nLaws restricting liberties and going to the extreme on protecting and impossing other ideologes erosion of freedom of speech, freedom of conscience, freedom of religion etc. \nOn top all that is the huge public debt, lack of transparency, abuse in the spending of many politicians, and corruption.\nAll together has turned living in Canada less disarable for many immigrants and also nationals. Many Canadian are choosing to live abroad or retire abroad.

Jobs? Work?!! Pay taxes? Contribute?!! What?!! Many of the “asylum seekers” came to Canada to take; not to contribute anything to Canada. Apparently they thought it’s all money for nothing and chicks for free in Canada.\n\nImagine showing up to a country and claiming that they needed to “escape” the imminent dangers from their homelands, yet the first thing they do upon arrival is make demands. Many expected to come to Canada and live for free. They wanted to live out of hotels and get room service for three meals a day. Free housing, free food, free healthcare, free everything; all paid for by tax dollars of hardworking Canadians who contributed for generations. \n\nDon’t let the door hit you on the way out…

Canada = ice, ice and more ice + high taxes + not much opportunity. They should pay us to stay in this cold boring place.

Canada wants young qualified immigrants sho do small jobs and pay heavy taxes to pay for the sick and ageing Canadian population and themselves live in perpetual poverty without owning a house, or get caught in the merciless mortgage payment system. Many immigrants are not choosing to sacrifice their lives for that. They have figured out the scam.

Some Canadians want to also leave…… taxes and quality of affordable living working and life balance…..spent early 20s to early 50s working 60-80 hrs per week and only now realized that all that hard work hasn’t paid off enough for early retirement or a wealthy retirement. Being a generational Canadian we often don’t see the struggle early enough and are told hard work pays off……..it does until you find yourself asking yourself what was all that for, worked and worked to give the government more than you give your family. I would not want to immigrate to Canada.

Yeah it's not just immigrants it's also born here Canadians. We are tired of the state of country, our lack of freedom and democracy, our failing healthcare and healthcare facilities, laughable education system, lack of infrastructure for new comers and Canadians alike. No party in Canada, neither Liberal, Conservative, NDP and Green, no one really represents Canadians and really listens to the public. We learned there is NO future here for us or our family. We're done with a country that I pay taxes too, believed in, it's not my fault that I have to leave, it's CANADA and decades of bad policies, investing in wars instead of our home and people. Trudeau spent more time demonizing anti-vaxxers and truckers and funding Ukraine rather then helping starving Palestinians and Congolese people, families struggling here locally to feed their family, kids are who aren't getting a proper education, elderly unable to pay for their medicine or food. We are all suffering because no one in our govt wants to actually help our country get back on track. So our govt is essentially pushing us OUT. We don't want to leave, we have no choice.

Canada is designed to lock you into a slave system. 2 weeks vacation per year for a full-time job, hence you ARE your job, there is no time to enjoy life. A good paying job will allow you to keep your head just above the water.\nFirst question when you meet people is 'What is your background?' because working and paying tax is so important here. \nFood and leisure in not affordable, which is why so many Canadians have never been to other countries (except for the U.S.) \nThere is a tax for everything and the red tape is ridiculous (insurance required for everything).

The homes are crazy expensive. Just start from million The healthcare is not good if something were to happen to you . Hav e to be waiting in the emergency over night I slips on ice went to the emergency went there at 6:00 for looked at 9:00 waited 4 hrs to get look d at. 3 generation Canadians have it good there parents came in the 90s houses weren’t so expensive then . Know it’s really hard with inflation so high if you don’t have a good job it will be a struggle. Indian students come to Canada thinking just working on cash will be enough ?it will not . Mass immigration is a problem to many people less houses . Canada likes to say they welcome immigrants but truthfully they dont. And high taxes, truth fully you work all your life just to sure and pay taxes …….

Canada is not a bad place to stay if you are planning for retirement. As a young man, I don't want to pay high tax with little recognition. EOM

This is not fair for those we went here in Canada do the kegal way,deport them otherwise we gonna be like USA will be building crimes and we paying tax to build ip this mation

Your canadian's mouth woman should pay highest tax than anybody in Canada.

Canada, where we are told to go green, while they tear down millions of trees. Where we pay taxes on used items that other people paid taxes on already, In BC, where we pay the highest booze prices, where the working man struggles, while Counceller's and politicians buy $200 wine, on our money. Where heritage houses are torn down, where we are becoming a minority, where land and older homes are disappearing for million-dollar homes with a small patch of grass. Surrey B.C. has become little India. Wildlife murdered through development; no wildlife assessments being done anymore. B.C. the province of monopoly, high car insurance. Where government attacks on the homeless instead of helping. I see more and more homeless and drug usage. More litter in the streets. Canada the socialist country. Canada with laws that protects immorality. Say one bad thing go to jail. Canadian government, they freeze peoples bank accounts. Canada has political prisoners, Tamara Lich (Trucker Convoy). Canada where they sell horses to be slaughtered in other countries, Canada, where dog meat is legal. Canada soon to be another China. Canada one of the most expensive places to live in the world!

I am leaving Canada next year. How can we pay carbon tax? BS or scam tax?

Since when there’s Canada dream? Dream to pay taxes?

Why would you say the “cost of healthcare in Canada is higher than in Europe” when it’s literally paid-for by our taxes? I mean it doesn’t cover everything (same as UK) like doesn’t cover pharmaceuticals, physio, hearing aids, or dental for most people (they’re changing that slowly thanks to our socialist party that’s been keeping the libs in line), but it’s ridiculous to say it’s costly since for most tax payers it’s basically free. Duh.. it doesn’t work perfectly b/c they are not funded enough b/c rich don’t pay enough taxes, but it suffices. At least everyone is covered unlike the US where only the rich have good healthcare and no medical debt. Very deceptive video.

I was born and raised here. I am doing my exit plan as I cannot afford to live here as young-adult living on my own. The government knew exactly what they were doing when they allowed 9 million people to come here in a short amount of time. How can you provide billions for foreign aid but can't provide basic necessities to your own citizens? I have cut EVERYTHING extra out of my life and even while working a full-time job I cannot survive in my own country. Canada is a country for the elite, cliche style immigrants, and for the ultra wealthy who pass down intergeneration wealth. A failed health care system that provides little to no services at which you pay out of pocket to get access with private health care providers. You can't depend on transit as it is the mercy of the corrupt transportation/commissioners aka unions and the cost of gas is out of this world. I AM SO LUCKY I went to university and graduated when I did because the same degree would have cost 15k-20k more...food is super expensive...renting an apartment is seen as a form of luxury....you have to know someone to get basic things done. What a shameful society...a society that treats immigrants with upmost respect only to turn around looking the other way when it comes to homelessness...the housing crises...lack of employment oppts, gosh I can go on. My brother was lucky enough to move to Dubai and cash in on his savings by investing it into his properties where he pays 0 tax on his salary from his job.

The best thing that can happen and to be clear I don't have a problem with immigrants but we dont have homes for the people already living here the people living here cant afford to pay more for them an the fact is the only thing our schools and politicians have been doing is taking advantage of them on top of the people already in canada. Time to stop giving our politicians and there corrupt corporation buddies money taxes .

New immigrants are wanted to pay taxes to pay for the lazy people in Canada who don’t want to work and expect everything for free usually called liberals are NDP

We pay 40 to 45% in taxes aside from property tax, expensive housing, utiities and food. the current government ruling is the main reason people wanting to leave Canada. you can not blame them just when they think they have seen it all the government adds new taxes(Carbon) we pay all these taxes but we get our garbage picked up once a week!? when a thief steals from you here the police tells you report it yourself online!? there is many problems here but the government pushes to teach little kids sexual contents!? I guess dividing people is the key to rule without challenges.

Born in Mexico and living in Canada for the last 33 years. This is not the Canada we had before.\nThinking also to move back to Mexico. Working hard people had to pay a lot of taxes,etc. More than 50% of you income goes to Federal, Provincial and municipal gouvernements.\nCanada rewards lazy people and hard working people must pay too much. Not worthy anymore.\nThis is cause a Liberal gouvernement under Trudeau .

Moved to Canada 6 years ago and can’t make it work, despite having a good job. The housing costs are staggering, 60% of your income, if you can find a place. And the taxes are out of control, 40% of your income, plus you pay 12% tax on every dollar you spend! People are miserable here too, slaves to the housing bubble.

It’s a zhithole, cheapest house in poorest province is 300,000 while salaries are 45,000 a year where you take home 30,000 in a year for high taxes but people are so stupid that just won’t stop immigrating cuz they think is just like the US where you work hard and you are rewarded. Canada is not. The more you work the higher taxes you pay. Life is expensive , housing is in crisis and healthcare is gone. But philipinos indians and Africans won’t stop coming here thinking that lifestyle is similar to US where only cultural and languages are shared. Quality of life it’s worst and worst every year. Thanks to our honourable prime minister narcissist and tyrant JT.

Property tax and car insurance make it near impossible to retire in Canada. I Australia You pay ONLY 20% of THOSE CANADIAN PRICES. AND WHEN YOU RETIRE YOUR, BILLS ARE REDUCED SUBSTANTIALLY. AND WHAT IS THE REASON WHY CANADIANS DONT INVITE YOU TO YOUR HOME. THE ARE HAPPY TO COME TO YOUR HOUSE BUT NEVER make an effort to initiate or return the invite.

I became a Canadian citizen 15 years ago! Now I am looking to sell my assets in Canada and move back home! Everything is crazy expensive nowadays with high taxes! I work 2 jobs! And I pay higher 40% of my income to the government! I seriously believe that this government of JT did so much harm to the Canadians and their lifestyle and to the Canadian economy! God bless Canada ??

Canada uses Newcomers to pay pensions of old Europeans through tax

No surprise there, \n\nCanada is NOT attractive to migrants anymore due to multiple reasons.\n\nSoon a 1 bedroom apartment will probably cost 5000$/month for rent in the Major Cities making it impossible to settle here for newcomers.\n\nThe healthcare system has serious problems due to a lack of Doctors and Nurses who left for better paying jobs in US or Europe.\n\nIf you need immediate Specialist care you will probably have to pay hundreds of dollars just to see someone in the Private sector because the Public Health System has huge waiting lists and is understaffed.\n\nYou won’t be able to get a Government Family Doctor because the remaining ones have thousands of patients already so they’re swamped.\n\nYou can wait even 10 years for a Family Doctor and still won’t get one.\n\nYou can’t be bumped up on waiting lists for Doctors or Specialists even if you are in a critical condition because you aren’t a Celebrity / Politician / Millionaire.\n\nOnly those with a lot of money, status, power get immediate medical attention in case of an emergency.\n\nMost of the traditional medical costs like and eye exam, treating an ingrown toe nail, Physiatrie treatment are NOT covered by the Provinces anymore so you will have to pay out of pocket hundreds of dollars again.\n\nSome Provinces are already copying the US healthcare system which is 100% Private and for profit so don’t be surprised if you you’re gonna have to pay even for an infusion.\n\nThe minimum wage is only 15$/hour in most provinces when in reality you need at least 40$/hour to survive the ridiculous cost of living.\n\nYour typical salary will go 45% to taxes and 45% to rent leaving almost nothing for food / bills / gas / insurance etc. \n\nYou will struggle to make ends meet and possibly starve a week or two every month just to say that you’re “Canadian” \n\nThat is the sad reality but Canada is in a deep hole right now.\n\nUK is in a similar situation too.

I left Canada 3 years after I got the citizenship, because the cost of living was unbearable. I was living in 1 bedroom condo in Vancouver (Canada), with no cars or investment. In 2020 I found an entry lvl job at Amazon Seattle (US). My pay doubled, tax reduced by 50%. Sold my Canada condo, and bought a single family home and a car in Seattle. Never wanted to come back. \n\nPS: I lived in Toronto for 5 years, and Vancouver for 5 years.

No no come to Canada!! We need to pay you nothing and charge you everything! ? you guys can pay are taxes forever ? \nCanada is the best ?

Theirs no prosperity in Canada anymore as you would think, big businesses,had crushed small businesses, small businesses are destroyed by red tape and high taxes, buying a home is only available to people with significant salaries and high paying job, and internet insurance, all extremely high. As a Canadian, I would leave this country, politicians are crooks, liars, controllers, it’s a beautiful country, but the governments have ruined the life living here. Politicians are such asshole bullshitters it unbelievable.

I think Canada is still one of the best countries in the world. Some of the countries that have high rankings of happiness have free university, humane incarceration, much better health care,m and everyone has a family doctor, and many amenities to make life more productive and healthy. I’m fine paying more taxes for those societal benefits but many aren’t. Society is what we make it to be honest. Staying put and digging in and contributing to good in your community is a great way to improve city life. I think you are far too concerned with what things cost to do that unfortunately. Thailand is cheap as hell but I could never tolerate the low wages paid to vulnerable, hard workers, and the profound poverty, not to mention sex tourism. Trashing cities and departing isn’t helpful. Good luck!

Came to Canada from Kuwait looking for a better future. Big mistake, shouldn't have flapped my gums at work, i had a decent banking job with a career and a future. Now im stuck driving a effin truck with a bachelors degree to make slightly above average with 0 appreciation from the public, and a middle finger to say thank you for my 70 hour work weeks. I see my bed once every 3 days. I sleep next to rats and roaches in truck by the ports. Belittled by port workers and customs agents. Barked at by everyone down to a forklift driver. Looked at as lesser of a human because of the colour of my skin. What a horrible life :( My sister has already left and she was a dentist in Toronto. My mom went back ages ago. My dad is the only one wanting to stay to take care of his elderly patients, many rely on him. All i do is pay taxes and hide my money in the business, what a corrupt and horrible financial system.

There are 1.44 million college and university students in Canada. About 550,000 of those are foreign that’s over 1/3. These students are paying 3 to 4 times the tuition of a Canadian. If 1/3 are foreign then universities are scamming both Canadians and the foreign students. There should be no more than 10-15% foreign undergraduate students. Canadian students are being rejected into university programs with an average of 95%. If someone gets 95 there should be no problem getting into a Canadian school. The system is broken for the tax payer who funds these universities.

you are using taxes to pay for refugees staying in canada. but reducing the international students who pays 3 times higher tuitions, and might be become young, well educated labour staying in canada. trudeau is so screwed ., canada is becoming third world country in north america .

I’d like to think I could watch the whole video but frankly within the first 3 reasons people are “leaving Canada” - not something I’ve notice although in and election season I am not surprised this may be getting blown up In conservative press, you have left out any real context. Yep we pay taxes - but you don’t speak to what services those taxes do our don’t deliver. The complaint that employers want to hire people with experience is as old as time. I’m 70 and when I tried to get jobs as a kid and later as a university grad - it was the same story. Whether the job really requires experience or the employer is just using it to keep entry level wages down - that just goes with the territory and also feels universal. Lastly - you speak of “the Canadian way” without giving any examples. What is “the Canadian way” or is that just your euphemism for racial or cultural prejudice? If it is you should just say what you mean and stop bandying ill defined terms around that let viewers arrive at conclusions you don’t intend. So already being pretty annoyed with your Masters degree opinion piece - I had to stop you and move on. You thoughts here are not very meaningful and feel like they are full of grievances and intended to be asking for audience validation of your grievances which pretty much invalidates your disclaimer at the top of the video.

I’m a born Canadian and Canada was once the envy of the world. Cost of living was decent and plenty of good paying jobs. I couldn’t imagine being an immigrant here now. Cost of living is skyrocketing and our government does nothing about it. We are taxed so high and get little in return for the high taxes. Though our healthcare system is free and We do have state of the art facilities and skilled doctors it takes forever to get treated due to high wait times and staff shortages. There are many people immigrating to Canada with high education and experience but Canada does not allow them to practice here because they were not educated here. They are forced to take lower paying jobs. Many young people are leaving because it just too expensive to live here and the political climate is not what it used to be. Growing old here is very difficult unless you have support from family or have a large enough pension account to live in a retirement community

I dont understand why people keep coming to Canada i born and raised here i am always in debt i barely support my 2 kids and my wife Canadian government they take off my income almost 50% and 15 % taxes on purchases so i live with 35% of my income what the hell is that also we are living in cold weather 6 months i dont understand like here in Quebec if uou want to buy a house you pay a welcome tax whats the hell i recommend everyone if you have a stable job in your country stay in your country between your family .

Amazing you can comment on a CBC news YouTube channel.. you cannot blame the huge influx of immagrants on just students coming here to learn... The federal government needs NEEDS NEEDS to shut down the flow of people coming here from everywhere.. we as a country cannot handle the sheer ammount that they want to bring in.. these people are brough here in the expectance of paying taxes.. but how many are getting their education and leaving for greener pastures? Why would this be any different than what Canadian students do after they are finished with their education.. How may of the immagrants that are coming here that the government expects to pay taxes are actually taking money from the welfare system because there are no jobs for them.. im gonna say that taht number is huge maybe more tahn 60 percent.. What the liberal government is doing is destroying Canada in the mean time and all Canadians are suffering because of these moronic games.. It needs to stop now.

Canada needs immigration and a lot of it to support the tax base and pay for retiring boomers pensions. Those international students pay a lot to study here and Universities depend on that funding as government funds dry up.

if you earn less money then you don't pay that much tax for health care. I've never paid over 15% of my income for income tax and because I earn so little I don't pay monthly health care premiums they are just free. The reason I earn so little is because I have a 3yo and no options for childcare when his dad is working so I can only work when his dad is not working. As a result I get the maximum canadian childcare benefit (CCB). Although the main reason I haven't left canada yet besides family, is the clean drinking water, relatively clean air (I live in a rural area) and low levels of environmental diseases (malaria, hep B, dengue, zika, cholera, parasites etc). I keep trying to find a country that can offer clean drinking water and clean environment with decent climate and soil for growing food, and decent health care and work opportunities. If anyone has any suggestions for countries like this to research I'd love to hear them.

Immigrants pay mortgages, pay taxes , do horrible jobs that European Canadians don’t do, aren’t immigrants building Canada , this is just political news , in reality immigrants are progressing Canada

Most people are not saying no to immigration. We do need some level of immigration. \n\nHowever, we need to slow way down to catch up and make up for the massive immigration of the past 6 to 8 years. Bringing more and more people, when we don't have the infrastructure or the economy to support them, is doing no one a favor (except big companies and landlords). Immigrants come here with the promise of a better life but end up stuck paying 2700$ per month for a closet in Toronto, working three jobs and 55 hours a week where they make 3400$ a month. The housing situation is the worst it has ever been. Rates are high, average cost of house in Canada is now above 750k CAD while the average salary is around 54k. Those are not sustainable figures. We cannot keep accepting 500k people a year, with hundreds of thousands of international students on top of it. \n\nI'm sorry if it ruffles the feathers of some liberal thinkers, CEOs, big slumlords and university boards but this is not a sustainable model. We've been going down in standards of living, despite paying heavy taxes. Something needs to change.

The infrastructure across Canada is not in place to handle a large influx of population. The health care and education systems and housing across the country are underfunded and the federal gov. which rakes in 86% of tax revenues is not giving the provinces their fair share and expects them to keep the infrastructure functioning effectively anyway. The universities are using international students to make up the deficit caused by the lack of funding and help form the federal government. In the process the Canadian students are being shafted because they pay less tuition even though their parents are still paying for most of the upkeep of the institutions of higher learning.

Canada brings immigrants in order to increase its population and there lies the problem that politicians don't know what to do with.\nImmigration is needed so that they work and pay taxes so that the older generation can retire.\nThe english and french population is probably shrinking.

Canada is a country that is built on middle class where a large part of the population are within the same earning range. There are positives to this, less crime, there is not a huge disparity between rich and poor which makes for a more sane environment don’t get me wrong, we still have our crime rate. Now you can see that the professional programs are limited compared to other countries in the universities and highly competitive so that you don’t have so many professionals with high earning power thereby creating a huge disparity. On the other hand, these high earners don’t get a tax return, get any govt cheque, their kids don’t get huge amounts for OSAP instead, they get billed to pay back the govt and that’s how those of you complaining now where able to get govt cheques when you just relocated, support low income homes and newly landed immigrants. There’s free health, good Ammenities, snow is cleared, the roads are salted and de iced, free Education, govt loans and school loans that’s where your tax money goes to. Everyone has an accent that’s your identity why will you feel somehow or intimidated when you are told you have an accent that’s being timid say yes I have an accent it’s African or Caribbean etc. About racism it’s rare never experienced it that’s not saying it doesn’t happen but am gonna call you out if it’s obvious I have been profiled. Yes the weather is harsh did you not look at your map before relocating ?? In all most of these complaints are individual experiences so I won’t invalidate it but don’t trash what you gained from. Retraining and certification is a must especially when you are coming from a certain country and it’s not a bad idea. Am in healthcare and retraining is a must if you didn’t school here cos it’s entirely different talk about work ethics, equipments, software, differentiation in policies, health laws and malpractice laws.\nLook at the brighter side of life and stop complaining migration has its pros and cons position yourself in a place to have a good life, go back to school, get certified, keep retraining and adding value to your certificate.

Health care is not free in Canada. Service is horrible and you're paying taxes out of your ass.

the Tax system in Canada is FAIR:= EVERYONE MUST PAY TAX AT THE TIME OF RECEIVING HIS OR HER WEEKIY OR MONTHLY INCOME== THIS IS FAIR: AND THE MORE YOU HAVE MONEY EARNINGS ; THE MORE YOU MUST PAY TAX in order to lessen the Gab between classes of the community. And why a person must have 2 jobs?? it is just Greed!!! having two jobs means you deprive another person looking for a job!!! TAX SYSTEM IS FAIR: AND CHARGING THE TAX IN ADVANCE PER MOTH OF WEEK IS AN EFFECTIVE WAY TO HELP PUTTING AN END TO: (TAX EVASION AND TAX AVOIDANCE) !! TAX SYSTEM IS:=FAIR, YEAH!

This is a real issue in many cities in Canada and the US where the cost of housing is so high! I live in a very nice area in Florida and pay less than $1400 a month (mortgage, taxes, insurance)

I lived in Western Europe, Japan and at the moment, Canada. I lucked out getting a well paying job in Vancouver when I moved back a few years ago and my average tax rate is actually the exact percentage you stated in the video - 28%, which includes income tax, pension and employment insurance. I'm actually doing better in terms of quality of life now but I do miss being able to travel around Europe for cheap. (e.g., quick train ride to Paris for the weekend) Now, I take cheap flights (e.g. Flair Airlines) to Mexico instead.\n\nJust to state some data points: when I was in Europe, I paid a total average of 39% income tax on a lower salary than I have right now in Canada. Things like utilities (e.g., gas/electricity), restaurants, certain grocery items and electronics (e.g., iphone/PS5/computers) were significantly more expensive because European VAT (inclusive) is usually 20%+. \n\nI don't have the exact numbers but on average I believe I was paying 70 - 90€ ($100 - 130 CAD) just for electricity each month for a small flat, but I am now paying $30 - 50 CAD for a decent sized 1 bedroom. I believe my housing gas bill was about the same or possibly a bit more. In addition, automobile gas prices were much higher (about $2€/L on average which is $2.90 CAD/L) and I think they could go even higher right now. \n\nHowever, rent is definitely more expensive in Vancouver, but I believe that is true for many West coast cities in North America. Right now I'm paying $2300 CAD a month for a 1BR, and I split that amount with my partner. In comparison, it would have been about €1300 ($1900 CAD) for something similar in the city where I was living previously. In a more expensive city (e.g. Amsterdam) a 1BR would easily cost €1800+ ($2650 CAD).\n\nFor me, the difficulty of making friends in my late 20's stays about the same. I think it is difficult to make new friends after graduating from school, and you have to put yourself out there by joining groups and events. (e.g. Meetup or volunteering?)